Winter Training on the cycle path

[johnboy]

I find it hard to understand why in this day and age so many club members decide not to train on the cycle path over the winter time.
It is by far the safest option. There are no cars, broken pavements, neds, dogs, traffic lights and even on those icey nights it is never slippy. For 3 years now we have being training on the path without any incident, unlike those members who are running around the streets of Johnstone & Linwood where I have heard of members being punched, spat at, stoned and picking up injuries from the uneven surfaces they are running on. They also have to be on constant alert for traffic and are risking their lives crossing roads at speed. I would like to know what club members think and if there is any main reason for not training there?

[jkynaston]

I agree that the cycle track is great all year round. Last night we had about 12 runners and most had head torches which gave enough light for everyone. In fact the winter is actually better on the cycle track as there aren't as many cycles and dog walkers.

When I first joined the club in 2002 we ran on the roads around Linwood and I felt it was far more dangerous dodging cars and people. I was pleased that for the last couple of winters we have carried on running on the cycle track.

So the challenge is laid down for those who run around Linwood to say why?

[jimmcmillan]

I started running “seriously” in 1965 and in the last forty odd years I have utilised most types of ground surfaces for training – mainly in the South side of Glasgow and the Barrhead/Johnstone/Elderslie areas. During that time I have only rarely encountered anything remotely threatening – the odd vicious dog or non educated delinquent (Ned) being the exceptions - I may have been lucky. Road traffic has undoubtedly increased since I started running but I find that if I stay on the pavements and exercise common sense, when crossing busy roads or at roundabouts, I can still complete my training runs more or less unimpeded. John McL asks if there is a main reason for not training there (the cycle path) and my reason for not doing so is that I like to train over a variety of routes and, having spent Monday’s during the “light nights” on the cycle path, I want a change during the “dark nights”. Also, the pack I run with on a Monday is frequently joined by younger athletes who don’t complete the full distance and are picked up in the car by Arthur or John at pre-determined places on the route we have decided to take. I accept that this practice could continue if the pack ran on the cycle path but if the whole exercise was not co-ordinated properly young athletes could be left standing in the dark waiting for their lift – a totally unacceptable scenario. One of the advantages that running has over other sports is that training is not restricted to a pool, a court, a rink, a pitch etc. but can be undertaken almost anywhere. John K asks “why do we run round Linwood” my answer is “because it’s there” as is “round the houses”, “the oilfield’s” “Green road” etc. etc. – variety is the spice of my life.

[johnboy]

I fully respect and accept all that Jim says in his reply. 40 odd years of running is quite amazing.
I would just like to add that any members wishing to train on the cycle path on Monday nights during the winter should be encouraged to do so, if possible, as I believe not all members are as happy as others running around the Johnstone, Elderslie, Linwood route

[roadrunner]

The reason that I run on the roads over the winter is that that is where the group of people that I can keep up with run and so I go with that group. I wouldn't want to run on the cycle path and be worried about being left behind on my own. However, there have been a couple of times where runners have had near misses with cars and it sure turns your stomach when you run through clouds of cigarette smoke or a wafting smell of the local Indian/kebab joint!

[Max]

johnboy said:

I find it hard to understand why in this day and age so many club members decide not to train on the cycle path over the winter time. It is by far the safest option. I would like to know what club members think and if there is any main reason for not training there?

John, I think that the main reason is that a few (many?) years ago Tom Caldwell, a club member & Police Chief Inspector, gave us a talk in the gym about safety. His main recommendation was that the cycle path is (was?) dangerous as many "neds" congregated there summer & winter.
Personally I have never seen one there in winter time but I am not on it as much as some.
Maybe we should re-investigate & do a Risk Assessment on this matter.

Regards,

Max.

[jkynaston]

Derek Parker asked me to post this contribution to the discussion about training on the cycle path .....

As one who started running with the former Paisley Harriers in November, 1963 - 47 years ago next month - I can claim to have an even longer claim to training than Jim. During that time, I have run 2 London marathons and 50 (exactly) half marathons. Here are my thoughts on training on the cycle path. during the winter months. Please note I speak as an athlete - or former athlete - and NOT in a coaching capacity.

I believe athletes should train in an environment where they feel safest. For me, this would definitely be the cycle path for various reasons - not least the fact that a close relative was killed in a night-time road accident over 30 years ago and to this very day I would not wish anything of this horrendous nature to befall other people or their families.

I would not be so naive as to think that nothing can happen on the cycle path because no training environment is 100 per cent. However, I personally feel far safer on the path, even at night, than I ever would be running on pavements alongside busy roads or crossing traffic-congested roads and roundabouts.

Whatever may or may not happen on the cycle path, the chances of being knoocked down by a vehicle are very remote. Also, on the cycle path athletes are not breathing in millions of particles of carbon-monoxide from vehicle exhaust fumes which adhere to haemoglobin more readily than do oxygen molecules. On the path athletes are not subject to verbal and physical abuse from corner boys and girls, they do not run into lamp posts, or get cut by protruding branches, nails and wire, or get pelted by stones and other missiles, all of which have happened to people running on the roads.

I remember on one occasion Jim and his running group were sprayed by liquid from a water gun which, at the time, we feared might be chemically hazardous. Eileen Masson was on one occasion struck on the head by someone leaning out of a car. Just last week, a runner in Elderslie was pelted by eggs thrown from a passing car and also last week a woman driver had a gun pointed at her by the passenger of an overtaking car at the Mill Brae. Police later apprehended a youth from a car on the Beith Road with a type of gun that fires ball-bearing missiles.

Also, last week an elderly man was seriously injured in Main Road, Elderslie, by a car reversing from a stationery position. Other mishaps have included Robert Quinn being struck by a motor bike and running into a lamp post, Tommy Graham running into a lamp post and Eric Faulds looking like a wartime causalty after tripping on the pavement. There are loads
more horror stories which I shall not bore you with as I am sure everyone has a tale of woe of their own to tell.

As for Max's recollection of Tom Caldwell's advice, what Max says is correct but what is not so well-known is that afterwards I told Tom that I believed the advice he had given was wrong and could be dangerous. I had - and still have - documentary evidence of the fact that from 1987, when we joined the cycle path on winter nights from the Thorn School at Mill Brae, until 1994, when Tom made his speech, there had been NOT ONE single incident on the cycle path in those seven years compared to all the accidents similar to those described above.

Anyway, Tom's speech was back in 1994 and since then, 13 years later, we have had major road developments, new housing estates, supermarkets, more cars on the roads than there were in 1994. The roads are so much busier and more dangerous.

As one who is used to being on the cycle path in the dark - I used it day and night for 15 years when I worked at Castle Semple Country Park and still do so at the weekends and sometimes through the week - I realise that my familiarity with the path is not something experienced by most club members, especially as we live in an urban society when most people are unused to being out in the countryside at night.

I also use the path two nights a week to get over to Linwood and so far have not experienced any bother. However, I am not so naive as to think that because something has never happened it never will happen. All I can say is that I personally feel safer on the path than on the busy roads, even during broad daylight and that the cycle path would be my chosen training option on winter nights. Most of the cycle path runners use headlamps in any case and this further minimises whatever risks there might be.

However, I emphasise that this is my own personal opinion and that other people are entitled to - and should act on - theirs. As for Max's suggestion of a risk assessment, this in my opinion could have serious implications. It would involve the club and its coaches in all sorts of
legal scenarios and could even lead to charges being brought against them or sued for damages. Morever, it would probably end the concept of pack runs at the club because crossing any road or even running alongside it in a group could be considered dangerous.

The onus must be on the athletes themselves - senior athletes, that is - to be responsible for their own health and safety during training runs although obviously we as a club and coaches must make athletes aware of potential dangers. These are my thoughts on the matter and ones which I hope will be considered by all athletes when deciding for themselves which is a safe training environment for them.

PS - Please beware of wet leaves at this time of year, especially when running round corners or up and down hills.

Derek Parker

[Max]

jkynaston said:

As for Max's suggestion of a risk assessment.
The onus must be on the athletes themselves - senior athletes, that is - to be responsible for their own health and safety during training runs although obviously we as a club and coaches must make athletes aware of potential dangers. These are my thoughts on the matter and ones which I hope will be considered by all athletes when deciding for themselves which is a safe training environment for them.
PS - Please beware of wet leaves at this time of year, especially when running round corners or up and down hills.
Derek Parker.

RISK ASSESSMENT.
Sorry to confuse the issue Derek, this was meant to be a throwaway comment to help illustrate this situation.
Could I also take this opportunity to comment on some runners total lack of safety awareness by wearing DARK,YES DARK clothing at night.
Just last week I was driving in Foxbar at 20:50 & just noticed 2 club runners on the pavement only by the paleness of their faces!!!! ( or maybe by their highlighted hair).

Max.

[roadrunner]

I was out on Monday night with the club, running the route up past the cemetary and back through Elderslie. We encountered three young boys who ran with us, munching on their chips, hurling smart comments and foul language our way. The road up by the cemetary is dark, the pavements are uneven and as Derek says, covered with wet leaves. It's dangerous when you're running at speed and relying on a quick glance over your shoulder to check for traffic before crossing the road.
I would be happier running on the cycle track if I have people at my level of running who are also happy to do so.

[dougie]

:-/Good topic this one! For me the cycle track is no use in the winter. Even with today's advanced lights my eyesight is pants in the dark. Add to this a pissing wet night with rain on my specs I would be just as well running with a blindfold on. All the hazards we have to put up with are just part of our running, run with the group you enjoy and stay with the pack, and the pack should stay with you. Don't know if many runners on a Wed night go on the cycle track, maybe we should try but advice will be needed on lights. What happens if injury/accident occurs, does anyone carry a phone?

[johnm]

Whilst I respect the views off everybody who runs on the cycle path, I also feel that a change of scene is preferred come the winter time. I find it extremely difficult to see on the path and feel much safer around linwood. As with Jim comments if you apply common sense and take care when crossing busy junctions then the risk is no greater than the path.

It also gives you that advantage as no race is ever on a flat cycle path and training on a flat ground does not provide that.

Again it is everybodys own decision, though we do not want individuals to go it alone as this is not safe and not condusive to a good training enviroment.

[Max]

dougie said:

:-/Good topic this one! For me the cycle track is no use in the winter. Even with today's advanced lights my eyesight is pants in the dark. Add to this a pissing wet night with rain on my specs I would be just as well running with a blindfold on. All the hazards we have to put up with are just part of our running, run with the group you enjoy and stay with the pack, and the pack should stay with you. Don't know if many runners on a Wed night go on the cycle track, maybe we should try but advice will be needed on lights. What happens if injury/accident occurs, does anyone carry a phone?

Dougie, try the path through the woods from Rannoch to Elderslie. Christine & I did it last night with headtorches & it was fantastic. Quiet, peaceful, good surface, sheltered from the wind & a different route. On a wet night the trees provide good shelter.

Regards,

Max.

P.S. I always run with a 'phone in my bumbag & feel "naked" without one.

[johnboy]

When I made my original comment about winter training on the cycle path, I was mainly making reference to Monday night fartlek sessions.
I accept and respect the views of other members and have enjoyed reading their comments. There is one more point I would like to add.
The road safety issue. It is said that if you apply common sense and take care at roundabouts and busy junctions then the risk is no greater than the path.
I tend to agree with this and did find in my couple of years winter fartlek training on the roads that most members did apply common sense and care.
However there was a hard core element who regularly showed disregard for road safety. They would run through the roads at the busy roundabouts,
they would use the roads for overtaking, often two or three abreast with there backs to the traffic and their clothing was never suitable for running in the dark.
Not only was this setting a bad example for younger members but many people seemed to turn a blind eye to this behaviour.
This will now be my 3rd winter fartlek training on the cycle path and I'm led to believe that not much has changed with regards to some members road safety.
Recently I was asked by a friend if I was one of the kamikaze runners running the wrong way on the road in the dark through Elderslie. It was a Monday nights
fartlek group they were referring to. So I feel more needs to be done on road safety as the action of some can tarnish the image of all club members.
There is room in this day and age for sessions to be done on Mondays in both environments and it is entirely up to each member to make up his or her own mind.
I would like to think that anyone choosing the cycle path option will be encouraged just as much as anyone choosing the street option.
As for the debate on which is better and safer to train on in winter time, cycle path or streets, what greater endorsement can the path have than the clubs top
distance runner choosing the path for fartlek sessions.

[michael]

Hi there. I was reading dereks bit about cycle paths and i think i will be thinking of going out on the cycle path as of next monday. I have been out on the cycle path and on the roads i readind dereks bit i think he is right. In a race u would not jump up and down pavements. On the cycle path when i have been cycling i have past neds and they get more of a fright that what u do. I think i will be back with you guys next week.

[pacepusher]

I have read a few articles previously recomending dark clothing at night... especially for women. They suggest that it is safer not to be seen these days! it's a sad world we live in. Any oppinions?